tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17617194.post1248271525223872704..comments2024-03-07T06:52:34.516+00:00Comments on Exiled Preacher: Why should any Church of England Bishops sit in the House of Lords? Guy Davieshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09184743462264437085noreply@blogger.comBlogger15125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17617194.post-63831338827435649842015-12-09T16:57:06.309+00:002015-12-09T16:57:06.309+00:00I don't think your memory is serving you corre...I don't think your memory is serving you correctly on MLJ and disestablishment, Steven. And whatever he thought about the matter, the idea of an established church, especially the Erastian model represented by the CofE is foreign to the NT. <br /><br />Point taken re use of Catholic, Ben. Speaking as a Reformed Catholic myself.<br />Guy Davieshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09184743462264437085noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17617194.post-31521083979671211552015-12-09T16:37:13.134+00:002015-12-09T16:37:13.134+00:00Very much agree, though (despite some of the reaso...Very much agree, though (despite some of the reasonable/helpful suggestions of the report) it was the product of an interfaith committee and some of its comments belie any credentials those writing might claim to have.<br /><br />https://knealesm.wordpress.com/2015/12/07/commission-on-religion-and-belief-in-britain-seems-to-annoy-secularists-and-faith-communities-alike/Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17617194.post-21902512251207666882015-12-09T13:51:55.755+00:002015-12-09T13:51:55.755+00:00I've been a supporter of disestablismentariani...I've been a supporter of disestablismentarianism for pretty much the whole of my Christian life. Only now am I beginning to draw back because I wonder what the consequences could be, in our present climate. I tend to discount DMLJ's point that the CofE holds back the tide (if that was his view) because CofE liberals and ritualists are not followers of the Christian faith and cannot be said to be holding back any tide at all. However, if the result were to give secularism even greater preeminence, or to put in place rules excluding Christianity from having any place in public life, it would only accelerate our national decline.<br /><br />On a point of order, Mr Preacher, the pope and his followers are not Catholic. It is the evangelical protestants who are true Catholics. I think that if we refer to the aforementioned instead as Roman Catholics, we are not being unduly offensive but make the point that there is an inherent contradiction in claiming to be the universal church while in fact conducting themselves as a distinct denomination according to their own special traditions and beliefs. In other words we need to reclaim the word "catholic" in our apologetic.Benhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02072015658089535103noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17617194.post-83171030222481581282015-12-09T08:36:47.695+00:002015-12-09T08:36:47.695+00:00I'm no friend of the CofE, as my recents prote...I'm no friend of the CofE, as my recents protests at women bishops demonstrates, yet I'd hestite to disestablish the CofE. MLJ, if my memory is correct, believed it held back the tide. Although most of the bishops are useless, it is nevertheless a Christian presence. And on state occasions etc the Bible is at least publicly read. stephenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07334899118486981929noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17617194.post-5426665495057500632015-12-08T16:11:14.850+00:002015-12-08T16:11:14.850+00:00I have nearly finished reading 'The Book That ...I have nearly finished reading 'The Book That Made Your World - How the Bible created the soul of Western Civilisation' by Vishal Mangalwadi (Thomas Nelson) It summarises the effects that the Bible had on the Church and State and, though I have not got to it yet, I think later he argues for the separation of Church and State. <br />It is a well researched book and shows how every aspect of National life, especially Protestantism was founded on the Bible.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08844366678053531631noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17617194.post-56430531917384104572008-10-23T17:42:00.000+01:002008-10-23T17:42:00.000+01:00If the Church of England is disestablished, we'll ...If the Church of England is disestablished, we'll fall victim to Popish plots! A supreme leader and his minions will seek to take us from our religious traditions and the faith of our fathers!<BR/>(Oh wait, Henry VIII already did that. Never mind.)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17617194.post-86975903885782113562008-02-18T23:00:00.000+00:002008-02-18T23:00:00.000+00:00Thanks for the view from across the pond, Looney. ...Thanks for the view from across the pond, Looney. <BR/><BR/>It often seems from here that Christianity has a greater role in public life in the US than in the UK. In the US, politicians openly "do God" in a way they would not over here. But as you point out, that is only half the story. <BR/><BR/>I certainly wouldn't want disestablishment to lead to hard line secularisation, so that it became illegal to pray in State schools.Guy Davieshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09184743462264437085noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17617194.post-73633639675607958842008-02-17T17:37:00.000+00:002008-02-17T17:37:00.000+00:00It would perhaps be helpful if the disestablishmen...It would perhaps be helpful if the disestablishment concept were clarified a bit more in order to avoid the kind of conflict we have on this side of the pond. My understanding was that separation of church & state originally was an issue regarding bureaucratic control structures only, which is clearly needed in England. The scope of this has broadened wildly, so that it is now impossible to teach public school children about the historical development of Christmas without also having an equal amount of class time devoted to traditional Maori winter solstice festivals and any other celebration that might have occurred at a similar date. The net result is not only a disestablishment of a specific church bureaucracy, but the disestablishment of an entire culture. <BR/><BR/>On the other hand, it seems that England has already accomplished the later forms of disestablishment without having done the former!Looneyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15801436449971512320noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17617194.post-86019799404698579002008-02-16T20:17:00.000+00:002008-02-16T20:17:00.000+00:00I don't see any benefit in the Church of England b...I don't see any benefit in the Church of England being established.<BR/>I can't think of much evidence that the state is really helping the Church of England, or that the Church of England is an effective Christian voice in the country.Ben Stevensonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08180387993747753614noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17617194.post-46477108536043986102008-02-16T14:05:00.000+00:002008-02-16T14:05:00.000+00:00Jon,The "Church in Wales" is already disestablishe...Jon,<BR/><BR/>The "Church in Wales" is <I>already</I> disestablished.Guy Davieshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09184743462264437085noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17617194.post-4977693468976089282008-02-16T13:08:00.000+00:002008-02-16T13:08:00.000+00:00Maybe you should direct your questioning towards t...Maybe you should direct your questioning towards the church in Wales...<BR/><BR/>Better hurry up too before it disestablishes itself... Not long to go nowJonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04051242488196178369noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17617194.post-3591728387412933872008-02-16T11:14:00.000+00:002008-02-16T11:14:00.000+00:00I don't know. The CofE seems to have the knack of ...I don't know. The CofE seems to have the knack of muddling through in the good old English way. Evangelicals did not leave the Church in large numbers after Lloyd-Jones' call in 1966. They stayed around in the 1980's when the Church was dominated by Liberals like Runcie and Jenkins. There wasn't a mass exodus of evangelicals ofter the ordination of women priests either. I'm not sure that many would leave on the issue of disestablishment. Proc Trust types don't seem that interested in Church politics. They just want to continue preaching the Word in the Anglican set up. <BR/><BR/>But it seems to me that global Anglicanism is in danger of fragmenting, with the more conservative Africans and Aussies squaring up against the USA liberals. Poor old Rowan is stuck in the middle trying to hold the whole thing together. <BR/><BR/>I would like to see evangelicals seceding from the CofE in large numbers, both in the UK on a global level. But who knows if that will ever happen?Guy Davieshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09184743462264437085noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17617194.post-79396840934682448332008-02-16T10:49:00.000+00:002008-02-16T10:49:00.000+00:00If CofE disestablish do you think it would then st...If CofE disestablish do you think it would then stay as one church? I just wonder whether if it was free from that contraint it might divide into parts cos holding it all together might not be such a big deal.... and that might be quite beneficial.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02894433115379089423noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17617194.post-10008260471769988192008-02-15T22:55:00.000+00:002008-02-15T22:55:00.000+00:00Page width is determined by template. Some templat...Page width is determined by template. Some templates have a narrow page width. Mine, "Stretch Denim" is nice n' wide. Just pick a new template. Yours is so "old blogger"!Guy Davieshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09184743462264437085noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17617194.post-55228204600324825822008-02-15T18:25:00.000+00:002008-02-15T18:25:00.000+00:00Amen.Ere .. How do you make your blog full page wi...Amen.<BR/><BR/>Ere .. How do you make your blog full page width guv?Jonathan Hunthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12341478626195362383noreply@blogger.com