tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17617194.post4631945327155359880..comments2024-03-07T06:52:34.516+00:00Comments on Exiled Preacher: Leadership crisisGuy Davieshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09184743462264437085noreply@blogger.comBlogger14125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17617194.post-39120483968475572142007-06-24T17:09:00.000+01:002007-06-24T17:09:00.000+01:00Thanks for this excellent, thoughtful post. It ec...Thanks for this excellent, thoughtful post. It echos conversations I've had with a few different people around the country.<BR/><BR/>It's time for a wider debate on this vital topic (of preparing young men for the ministry in the 21C). You should email the text to Evangelicals Now, I'd hope John Benton might be interested in republishing it...<BR/><BR/>Kevin BallAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17617194.post-23122043827717782782007-06-16T21:48:00.000+01:002007-06-16T21:48:00.000+01:00Thanks for your comments Gary. (Gary is a member o...Thanks for your comments Gary. (Gary is a member of the LTS board, so he should know what he's talking about re funding etc).Guy Davieshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09184743462264437085noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17617194.post-44405850433594860892007-06-16T20:36:00.000+01:002007-06-16T20:36:00.000+01:00Interesting. It should be underlined that LTS has ...Interesting. It should be underlined that LTS has had no UK students once or twice before ('95, '01??). It should also be noted, Guy, that LTS isn't short of money. There's plenty available for suitable candidates. I guess Mr J is seeking to be witty but to call Phil Eveson rude is simply inaccurate. As the jibe about the anointing of the Spirit I'm sure I've said worse in my time but out of pure ignorance. I was so much older then, I'm younger than that now!Gary Bradyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08171450135496647908noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17617194.post-23262922013323911532007-06-12T22:46:00.000+01:002007-06-12T22:46:00.000+01:00'It's a shame that such churches are sending their...'It's a shame that such churches are sending their men to be trained by Anglicans.'<BR/><BR/>I got no problem with it!michael jensenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15379361601019023165noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17617194.post-28814278042508676522007-06-12T08:25:00.000+01:002007-06-12T08:25:00.000+01:00I don't think that there is any danger of LTS clos...I don't think that there is any danger of LTS closing. Some UK students will be doing their 2nd year from Oct 07. The seminary also attracts a good number of foreign students. But it was set up mainly to serve the UK's evangelical free church constituency. It's a shame that such churches are sending their men to be trained by Anglicans. In his 1977 LTS inaugural address (published in <I>Knowing the Times</I> Banner of Truth Trust), Ll-J complained,<BR/><BR/>"that we have been hearing that certain free church evangelical students who are hoping to enter, and some who have entered, free church ministries have actually been going to Anglican colleges for their training. As a Nonconformist and free churchman that is something which rouses by ire, and if I had no other reason for supporting this venture, that alone would be sufficient for me." (<I>A Protestant Evangelical College</I>, p. 358) <BR/><BR/>By the way Michael, I don't think that Philip Eveson's critique of Moore was at all rude and inaccurate. But we've done that one before.Guy Davieshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09184743462264437085noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17617194.post-67713775300791715482007-06-12T06:50:00.000+01:002007-06-12T06:50:00.000+01:00Yes, it would be a shame if the seminary did not s...Yes, it would be a shame if the seminary did not survive, and yet obviously there is a need of a rethink. (The prinicpal writing rude and inaccurate articles about Moore College ain't going to help its reputation, you know.) People get a degree for almost anything these days, so perhaps that policy could be rethunk as a priority. <BR/><BR/>We anglicans think it our birthright to complain about bishops (and rightly so) but the trouble with Baptist-style church government is that the pastor is so exposed to the changeableness of the congregation. In my country, the rate of minister leaving the pastorate is far higher amongst those with Baptist church government (and would assume it is similar here). I don't blame men with families for saying that they can't work under that kind of pressure - and I admire those who do.michael jensenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15379361601019023165noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17617194.post-20644347150220826482007-06-12T01:38:00.000+01:002007-06-12T01:38:00.000+01:00I find this post rather intriguing. I have always ...I find this post rather intriguing. I have always loved Dr Martyn Lloyd-Jones, especially his book "Preachers and Preaching". I have, in fact, just finished reading through it again. I find his emphasis on the annointing of the Spirit on a preacher to be rather refreshing. It reminds us that the preaching moment is not in our control. It is not the preacher's responsibility to change people's hearts through his message. <BR/><BR/>It would be a shame if the seminary did not survive. I think it fills an important, yet unappreciated role for the pastorate.Pastor Chadhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16751611726273436374noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17617194.post-54639389133875230992007-06-12T00:34:00.000+01:002007-06-12T00:34:00.000+01:00'the idea of the anointing of the Spirit in preach...'the idea of the anointing of the Spirit in preaching is often downplayed and is sometimes dismissed as little more than a Lloyd-Jonesian aberration...'<BR/><BR/>well, yes... <BR/><BR/>;-)michael jensenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15379361601019023165noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17617194.post-32047550280543333222007-06-12T00:11:00.000+01:002007-06-12T00:11:00.000+01:00MW-W,In brief response:1) A seminary is entitled t...MW-W,<BR/><BR/>In brief response:<BR/><BR/>1) A seminary is entitled to its distinctive ethos and principles.<BR/><BR/>2)LTS only accepts students who have been recommended by their home churches.Guy Davieshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09184743462264437085noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17617194.post-25156555602689332162007-06-12T00:07:00.000+01:002007-06-12T00:07:00.000+01:00I understand the "male only pastor" view. What sur...I understand the "male only pastor" view. What surprises me is that a non-denominational seminary would presume to impose this view, rather than allow the churches that call ministers to make the decision.<BR/><BR/>A seminary, especially one that is not owned and operated by a denomination, should simply take students and teach them. Whether those students who are female are seen as fit (theologically or otherwise) to be pastors is for the congregations to decide. THEY, not some seminary, must decide how to interpret Scripture on this matter.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17617194.post-31499633963454557962007-06-11T23:51:00.000+01:002007-06-11T23:51:00.000+01:00MW-W,LST (LBC that was) has awarded degrees for ye...MW-W,<BR/><BR/>LST (LBC that was) has awarded degrees for years. LTS (my old seminary)does not award degrees on principle. The position is that the secular academy should not be allowed to determine what men study in preparation for pastoral ministry. "What has Athens to do with Jerusalem?" etc. Students are often graduates in other fields. Some (like me) go on to study for a theology degree. <BR/><BR/>LTS only trains men as UK Reformed Evangelicalism does not accept women pastors. That's the right position in my view, (1 Tim 2 etc), but I can't be bothered to get into a long argument about it with you.Guy Davieshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09184743462264437085noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17617194.post-90702247395850512462007-06-11T22:25:00.000+01:002007-06-11T22:25:00.000+01:00I hope LST (which was formerly London Bible Colleg...I hope LST (which was formerly London Bible College) survives, but it may have to start awarding degrees for that. I imagine other conservative non-conformists are going to Spurgeon's College, to King's College at the University of London, and elsewhere.<BR/><BR/>From a U.S. perspective, I am afraid that I don't understand ministerial training without degrees, although I know that most non-conformist schools in the UK worked that way before they were permitted to make connections to the university system.<BR/><BR/>In the U.S., ministerial training (leaning to an M.Div., equivalent to a British B.D.) must FOLLOW an earned B.A. or its equivalent. The idea is that theological education works best when built on a liberal arts education--but this was an idea that took generations to become as nearly universal as now.<BR/><BR/>P.S., Does your use of the masculine mean that LTS will not accept women as students? That may explain much about its current stagnation as anything.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17617194.post-44185511396093713152007-06-11T20:14:00.000+01:002007-06-11T20:14:00.000+01:00Thanks for that, Jonathan. You make a good point. ...Thanks for that, Jonathan. <BR/><BR/>You make a good point. Full time theological study is not a viable option for everyone due to the cost factors that I mentioned in # 1. <BR/><BR/>Full time study is not necessarily right for everybody anyway. I was simply using the LTS problem as a way of reflecting on the lack of men who are being called to pastoral ministry and the lack of churches willing to call pastors.<BR/><BR/>There are a lot of high quality distance learning theology courses out there these days. I did my degree with Greenwich School of Theology. <BR/><BR/><BR/>May you know God's blessing in your ministry and studies,<BR/><BR/>GuyGuy Davieshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09184743462264437085noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17617194.post-35530853808436321652007-06-11T19:04:00.000+01:002007-06-11T19:04:00.000+01:00GuyI would give every penny I have for even one ye...Guy<BR/><BR/>I would give every penny I have for even one year's full time theological study. But I don't have a penny to give. A friend of mine was so quickly snapped up by his church that he cannot attend seminary, but has been set aside to study distance courses from Joel Beeke's seminary, and his church pays for this.<BR/><BR/>Even if I could afford to study full time, I don't see how I could leave the calling that the Lord has given to me.<BR/><BR/>But my mind is not closed to these things. Here I am Lord.Jonathan Hunthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12341478626195362383noreply@blogger.com