tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17617194.post846319672195912300..comments2024-03-07T06:52:34.516+00:00Comments on Exiled Preacher: Engaging with Barth: An interview with David GibsonGuy Davieshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09184743462264437085noreply@blogger.comBlogger14125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17617194.post-6833233080176129312008-01-10T18:34:00.000+00:002008-01-10T18:34:00.000+00:00Thank you Guy.I'll leave any further response to a...Thank you Guy.<BR/><BR/>I'll leave any further response to anyone else who may be interested.<BR/><BR/>kind regards,<BR/><BR/>DavidAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17617194.post-14293914338976477392008-01-10T18:24:00.000+00:002008-01-10T18:24:00.000+00:00David,You seem to think that to engage with Barth ...David,<BR/><BR/>You seem to think that to engage with Barth is to agree with him entirely. I certainly do not. I still hold to the inerrancy of Scripture as tenatiously as ever. I have crossed no Rubicons. I'm not arguing for a Barth/Calvin synthesis. Wherever did you get that idea? But I am aware that many people (for reasons discussed in the interview) are being influenced by KB. What to do? Shall we simply denounce him and run for cover? That may demonstrate our evangelical credentials. But will that help those who are falling under Barth's spell? I think not. <BR/><BR/>Would you accuse the book's editors and contributors of becoming Barthian because of their engagement with the theologian?<BR/><BR/>As a busy pastor, my time for blogging is limited so I don't feel obliged to respond to every comment that is left here, not even yours. I don't intend to keep this discussion rumbling on endlessly.Guy Davieshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09184743462264437085noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17617194.post-89473284746083189912008-01-10T16:11:00.000+00:002008-01-10T16:11:00.000+00:00I am not asking what Barth believes the Bible teac...I am not asking what Barth believes the Bible teaches, but what Barth himself believes. I understand that he does not accept the Bible to be the "Word of God" in the true historical evangelical sense. Can anyone tell me what Barth himself believes and even more importantly how he defines "truth". <BR/><BR/>Personally I am not against full blooded manly discussion on such topics. They are fundamentally important. Even so serious issues ought be approached seriously.<BR/><BR/>An example of the centrality of truth as an issue would be the suggestion that if you take Barth and Calvin with their failings and compare and contrast them, you can come to a sort of dialectical synthesis somewhere in between defining a position nearer the truth. This has to be erroneous. The reason isn't to do with Barth or Calvin but to do with the very nature of truth itself.<BR/><BR/>The halfway mark between truth and error is still error. Calvin held to the whole Bible as the Word of God. This is the evangelical position and I hold to it myself with all my heart. Barth is a kettle of entirely different fish.<BR/><BR/>I know Guy and respect him, but I think that he has crossed the Rubicon here. I'd much rather someone showed me the error of my ways than be ignored.<BR/><BR/>However the issues at stake here could not be more important.<BR/><BR/>Kind regards,<BR/><BR/>David MackerethAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17617194.post-65096655873697048402008-01-10T12:15:00.000+00:002008-01-10T12:15:00.000+00:00@David (anonymous)...seeing as you are not even go...@David (anonymous)...<BR/>seeing as you are not even going to look it up, perhaps I shouldn't bother, but the reference is: CD IV/1 ยง59: The obedience of the Son of God, Pt 2: The judge as the one judged in our place.<BR/><BR/>These chapter titles give away the doctrine. If Barth quotes the Creed in the positive way he does, he is saying: this is what the bible teaches.<BR/><BR/>I find the sniffer-dog heresy-hunting most unattractive, and there is just as much of a drive in the NT to stop useless quarrels which poison hearts as a drive to correct false teaching. I don't know Guy, but he is a preacher, so I'm not sure that he has "a responsibility to find out" the details of all of Barth's dogmatics so that Barth can be conveniently pigeon-holed and then served up for the masses to worship/love/hate/refer to with distempt!Samhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13194661508498825103noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17617194.post-18641666494522211872008-01-08T23:20:00.000+00:002008-01-08T23:20:00.000+00:00What are you trying to do Guy?David MackerethWhat are you trying to do Guy?<BR/><BR/>David MackerethAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17617194.post-75549406361116617912008-01-08T22:32:00.000+00:002008-01-08T22:32:00.000+00:00Thanks, Dave Moody. At least someone called David ...Thanks, Dave Moody. At least <I>someone</I> called David appreciates what I'm trying to do!Guy Davieshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09184743462264437085noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17617194.post-10958932548240767772008-01-08T20:32:00.000+00:002008-01-08T20:32:00.000+00:00Uh, I'm another David... a single sentence summary...Uh, I'm another David... a single sentence summary of Barth's thoughts on anything? As if...<BR/><BR/>Thanks so much Guy for this fascinating and enlightening interview.<BR/><BR/>grace, <BR/>dmDave Moodyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08217094060036455319noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17617194.post-82136737429776134882008-01-08T16:09:00.000+00:002008-01-08T16:09:00.000+00:00In our previous discussion you told me to stop ask...In our previous discussion you told me to stop asking questions. Now you are doing the same which is indeed going over old ground, but answering questions is not.<BR/><BR/>So you say that Barth gets his doctrine of the Atonement from the creed, but not from the Scripture? How interesting.<BR/><BR/>You are perhaps coming over as being a little patronising. Perhaps you are not intending to be so? Its always hard to tell on a blog of course.<BR/><BR/>Regards,<BR/><BR/>David.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17617194.post-79723726967350001482008-01-08T15:58:00.000+00:002008-01-08T15:58:00.000+00:00We've discussed this before David, and I don't rea...We've discussed this before David, and I don't really want to go over old ground again. But the quote I gave is an expression of Barth's own beliefs, given in the context of his exposition of the Apostle's creed.Guy Davieshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09184743462264437085noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17617194.post-79110290822588018302008-01-08T15:42:00.000+00:002008-01-08T15:42:00.000+00:00Thank you Guy,That sounds as though it may just be...Thank you Guy,<BR/><BR/>That sounds as though it may just be a comment by Barth on what the Apostles Creed affirms. What does Barth himself believe? And surely you do have a responsibility to find out. What does Barth teach that the Scriptures, as opposed to any creed, affirm regarding the atonement? And no I am not going to go and look this up.<BR/><BR/>If you do not know what Barth teaches on the Atonement, you cannot say that he is a Christian. Likewise it tends to make meaningless all this stuff about theological thinking, reformedness and catholicity does it not?<BR/><BR/>Even a child can profess saving faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, but in order to know what Barth believes we have to delve into his "mighty church dogmatics". Bit of a disparity here I think.<BR/><BR/>Paul speaks of the simplicity that is in Christ and warns us not to think beyond what is written.<BR/><BR/><BR/>Kind regards,<BR/><BR/>David.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17617194.post-88940091796696005402008-01-08T15:29:00.000+00:002008-01-08T15:29:00.000+00:00David,I have not delved into the depths of Barth's...David,<BR/><BR/>I have not delved into the depths of Barth's mighty <I>Church Dogmatics</I>, so I don't really feel able to give an accurate summary of his view of the atonement. But here is an extended quote from his <I>Dogmatics in Outline</I><BR/><BR/>"But now the Confession [Apostle's Creed] tells us that the execution of this verdict is carried out by God in this way, that He, God Himself, in Jesus Christ His Son, at once true God and true man, takes the place of condemned man. God's judgement is executed, God's law takes its course, but in such a way that what man had to suffer is suffered by this One, who as God's Son stands for all others. Such is the lordship of Jesus Christ, who stands before God, taking upon himself what belongs to us. In Him God makes Himself liable, at the point at which we are accursed, guilty and lost. He it is in His Son, who in the person of this crucified man bears on Golgotha all that ought to be laid on us." <BR/><BR/>(p. 109-110, SCM, 2007 Second impression).Guy Davieshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09184743462264437085noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17617194.post-57395566663075442762008-01-08T13:46:00.000+00:002008-01-08T13:46:00.000+00:00I am a busy doctor Guy and unlikely to find time t...I am a busy doctor Guy and unlikely to find time to read a book on Barth. I would like to know what Barth's views on the Atonement are. I am sure you know. Perhaps just a single sentence summary?<BR/><BR/>Thanks,<BR/><BR/>David.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17617194.post-62256687166116485602008-01-08T12:27:00.000+00:002008-01-08T12:27:00.000+00:00Why don't you read the book and find out? It'll be...Why don't you read the book and find out? It'll be out soon!Guy Davieshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09184743462264437085noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17617194.post-66863373502822940572008-01-08T09:48:00.000+00:002008-01-08T09:48:00.000+00:00What is Barth's soteriology?David MackerethWhat is Barth's soteriology?<BR/><BR/>David MackerethAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com