An interview with Geoff Thomas: 'You Could Have It All'

I enjoyed interviewing Geoff Thomas on his new evangelistic book, You Could Have It All on Sunday evening. 

'Anxiety: A Mirror of the Heart' an online interview with Catherine Haddow

With a new national lockdown for England in place, many people are feeling anxious and fearful. On Sunday 15 November at 6.00pm I will be conducting an online interview with Chartered Psychologist Catherine Haddow. The focus of the conversation will be ‘Anxiety: A Mirror of the Heart’. In her books Emotions: Mirrors of the Heart and Jars of Clay: Peace for the Anxious Soul, Catherine has sought to show how faith in the Lord Jesus Christ can help to calm our anxious souls and give us peace. The interview will be livestreamed on the Providence Baptist Church Facebook page then made available for viewing later.

'Faith and Science: Harmony or Conflict?' An interview with Stuart Burgess

On Sunday 27 September at 6.00pm I will be interviewing Professor Stuart Burgess on 'Faith and Science: Harmony or Conflict?'. The interview will be livestreamed here on our Church Facebook page.

Stuart Burgess is a professor of Engineering Design at Bristol University. He has worked for the European Space Agency on spacecraft design and also worked for the British Olympic Cycling Team, designing the chain transmission for the Rio and Tokyo Olympics. He has published over 170 scientific papers on the science of design in engineering and nature and received several national awards including the 2019 IMechE Clayton Prize for the biggest contribution to mechanical engineering science in the UK.

Blogging in the name of the Lord: John Stevens

An interview with FIEC National Director, John Stevens

GD: Hello, John Stevens and welcome to Exiled Preacher. Please tell us a little about yourself.

Hi Guy and thanks for in inviting me to contribute to Exiled Preacher. I became a Christian 24 years ago while I was a law student at Cambridge University. I am married to Ursula and we have four children aged between 10 and 5, including twin girls. We have lived in Market Harborough for just over two years, and moved there when I took up my role as National Director of the FIEC. Before that I was one of the founding Pastors of City Evangelical Church Birmingham, which we planted in 1999, and also the Course Director of the Midlands Ministry Training Course. Birmingham is my home city and I have lived there for most of my life. Prior to becoming a Pastor I taught law in universities for 16 years, including serving 3 years as the Deputy Head of the Law Faculty at the University of Birmingham.

GD: This year marks the 90th anniversary of the FIEC. What is the distinctive role of the Fellowship in the UK Evangelical scene?

The vision of the FIEC exactly the same today as it was when we were founded in 1922, namely to serve the cause of the gospel in our nation by supporting independent churches. Whilst we work in partnership with other confessional evangelicals who share our core convictions, our distinctive contribution is our support for churches with an independent ecclesiology. We believe that this ecclesiology best reflects the biblical teaching on the nature of the church, provides the best opportunity for unencumbered and uncompromised gospel ministry and serves as the best defence against the institutional creep of liberalism and Catholicism, which undermine the gospel. The history of the 20^th century, with the decline and deviation from biblical truth of most of the mainstream UK denominations, bears out this conviction. The FIEC is not a controlling denomination, as we have no control at all over the actions of the local churches that are affiliated to us, and they are free to leave at any time. We are united around core gospel doctrines and, within these boundaries, are a diverse family of churches. Our churches cover a wider social spectrum than conservative evangelical Anglicanism, and we are a truly national movement with churches throughout the UK.

GD: What does being FIEC National Director involve?

My main responsibility is to provide visionary leadership for our family of churches as a whole, which means that I make sure that our central activities are all serving the cause of the gospel by strengthening and supporting our churches. I oversee my team of Directors (Pastoral, Training, Mission, Practical Services, Administration) and represent FIEC at a national level. I spend a great deal of time travelling to preach at our churches (this week I have been in Bournemouth, Southampton, Liverpool, Worcester, Leeds and Bristol!) and meeting other Christian leaders from the wider evangelical constituency. However I do not want to be an administrator or a bureaucrat. I want to lead the FIEC out of my primary gift of preaching and teaching the Bible, and so spend as much time as I can studying, preparing, praying and writing. Guarding this time is hard. I also serve as one of the Pastors of Christchurch Market Harborough, which is a small local church that was planted just over 18 months ago, as I want to make sure that I keep my feet firmly on the ground of local church ministry, with all the joys, sorrows and frustrations this entails.

GD: What is your vision for the future of the FIEC?

The vision of the FIEC is not just my vision, but the vision developed in conjunction with the other Directors, Trust Board and in consultation with the churches. We long for FIEC to be an effective means of advancing the gospel in the UK by ensuring that there is a thriving gospel church in every community, and where this is necessary an independent church in every community. We see ourselves as a mission agency serving the UK. Many independent churches have a great vision and commitment to their local area, and a passionate support for world mission, but many lack a wider vision for their own country. This is perhaps because, in the past, they did not view the UK as a need mission field, but it now clearly is. FIEC seeks to fulfil this “missing middle”. We seek to fulfil this vision by supporting and sustaining the churches that are already part of the FIEC, identifying and training the gifted leaders that will be needed by our churches in the future, facilitating and co-ordinating church planting initiatives in strategic places and where there is no gospel work, and lifting the burden of complying with the ever demanding regulatory framework affecting churches.

It is worth remembering that the central FIEC is still relatively small scale. The total annual budget of the FIEC is still less than that of the single largest of our 509 churches. We hope to become the natural home for all gospel people who share a commitment to our conservative evangelical convictions and our ecclesiology. We hope that many existing independent churches will consider joining the FIEC because they share our gospel vision and want to help to shape and support a vibrant gospel movement. If the institutional pressure on the conservative evangelical Anglicans, who share so much in common with us, causes them to have to leave the Church of England then I would love them to see the FIEC as a natural and welcoming home. I pray that in 20 years’ time there will be thousands, if not millions, of people who have been born again through the faithful gospel witness of FIEC churches, and that there would be no community without a vibrant and growing gospel church. This is not a vision we can accomplish alone, but we can make a significant contribution to the reevangelisation of our nation.

GD: You run a blog called ‘Dissenting Opinion’. What made you enter the world of blogging?

I had long resisted starting a blog. There were several reasons for this. First I am something of a technophobe and wondered whether I would be able to cope! I didn’t really know how to start and what would be involved. This changed when I employed a Digital Strategist at the FIEC to help develop our communications, and he was able to set everything up for me and show me how to use it. Second I wondered whether had anything useful to say that merited staring a blog. The world of blogging seems to be fiercely competitive and I was not sure that I had a contribution to make. However I realised that blogs were now a major means of communicating vision and information, especially with a younger generation, so that blogging had to be a vital part of my role as FIEC Director. I have sought to use my blog to explain the vision and progress of FIEC, to profile the ministry of our churches around the country, to share some of my theological thinking and ideas, and to comment on current affairs and contemporary culture from a Christian perspective. Having started to blog I have enjoyed the opportunity it gives to share thoughts and ideas more widely. It is something of a release for all the ideas that don’t make it into week-by-week expository preaching!

My blog is not an official FIEC blog, and not everything I say is FIEC policy. There is great diversity of theological view within the FIEC over many issues, and my views are certainly not the required views of all FIEC pastors and churches. I hope to stimulate debate and dialogue and to have my own thinking clarified. I have been astonished by the response to my blog and the world-wide readership it has attracted. In the first nine months I have had some 160,000 page views, though I have no idea whether this is below or above average. It does mean that I have probably spoken to more people via my blog over a few months than I have over my entire preaching ministry in churches over the last 20 years!

GD: What are the strengths and weaknesses of blogging as a medium for discussion of theology and church life?

The great strength of blogs is that they give the opportunity for relatively immediate comment, for thinking aloud, and for engagement with others rather than mere statement of opinion. However the weakness of blogs is that they can be superficial, self-serving, and unnecessarily polemical. I have tended to ignore all advice and write longer blog pots rather than short snippets. This is partly just the way that I think, but also because I want to give developed and reasoned arguments supporting my ideas. I have tried to avoid entering into polemical slanging matches with others, and have sought to be as fair as I can be in any criticism of others I might make. I generally take quite a time to write a blog post, especially if it is on a controversial area, and will read it through multiple times until I am happy with both the content and the tone of what I am saying. I am very conscious that once something has been published it cannot be unpublished, and it is easy to speak unwisely and unthoughtfully. Blogs can have the dangerous effect of developing unhelpful personal followings, and exacerbate the problem of celebrity leaders. I always write my own blog posts and tweets and would be very uncomfortable with the idea of having anyone else writing for me. I think that is a matter of integrity. There is also a pressure in maintaining the momentum of a blog and producing regular good-quality posts, and sometimes I feel this pressure on top of everything else that I have to do.

GD: Which blogs do you most enjoy reading and why?

I read, or more often skim, a range of blogs which stimulate my thinking and give me an insight into what is happening across a broad spectrum of evangelicalism. On a regular basis I keep up with (in no particular order):

Reformation 21

Desiring God

Justin Taylor (The Gospel Coalition)

Kevin DeYoung

Credo

The Proclaimer

Andy’s Study

A Faith to Live By

Blog and MaBlog

Krish Khandia

Blog of Dan

Archbishop Cranmer

Grace Preacher

Adrian Warnock

Albert Mohler

Theology Matters

Pastor Mark

and of course Exiled Preacher

There are a range of other blogs that I dip into from time to time. I follow a number of other leaders on Twitter and this enables me to dip into their blogs.

GD: What do you do to relax?

I am not sure that I am very good at relaxing! I love to read, so my ideal is to settle down with a good book. I love novels and thrillers with a plot that draws me in. I swim regularly and enjoy listening to a wide range of music. I enjoy watching good quality drama (we are currently working our way through the West Wing and have nearly finished series 5) and films.

GD: Which character from post-New Testament church history would you most like to meet and what would you say to him/her?

I look forward to meeting John Calvin and asking him why he retained such a strong element of sacramentalism in his understanding of the Lord’s Supper, and whether he was really convinced by his arguments in favour of infant baptism!

GD: The FIEC has a statement on Gospel Unity setting out the extents and limits of fellowship for member churches. Why is membership of the FIEC incompatible with belonging to Churches Together?

This is a very difficult issue for many because it seems harsh and judgemental to refuse to join together with others who claim the name of Christ, especially where some who belong to CT are evangelicals. However the very essence of CT is to regard people as brothers and sisters in Christ irrespective of whether or not they stand by the gospel fundamentals identified in the reformation and reflected in the FIEC Statement of Faith. CT was the successor body to the British Council of Churches, which sought structural unity between the denominations, but which did not include the Roman Catholic Church. CT includes and embraces the Roman Catholic church as legitimate brothers in Christ, as well as liberal protestants who reject the authority of the Scriptures, the cross as a propitiatory sacrifice for sins, justification by faith alone in Christ, the uniqueness of Christ as the only Saviour, and the biblical teaching which regards sexual relationships as only pleasing to God in the context of heterosexual marriage. As a family of churches we believe that it would undermine the gospel and imperil our witness to the unique saving truth of the Lord Jesus if we were to join together in mission and worship with those who deny gospel fundamentals. In our view formal membership of CT requires churches to agree with the fundamental ethos of CT, which is that doctrine is not important and that false teaching that leads people to eternal judgement need not be rejected and disciplined.

At the same time we want to enjoy, as far as is possible, good relationships with local churches. We do not practice secondary separation, so FIEC churches work together with other evangelical churches even if they belong to CT, but not under a CT auspice. We are prepared to join together other churches that would not stand with us doctrinally to engage in co-belligerence, social action and to defend our fundamental religious liberties, provided that to do so would not compromise the gospel.

GD: How do you see the relationship between the FIEC and Evangelical Anglicans?

The relationship between many FIEC churches and conservative evangelical Anglicans (which is different to Anglican evangelicals more widely) are better than they have been since 1966, because we have realised that we have so much in common. Many conservative evangelical Anglicans operate an essentially independent ecclesiology, and they regard the local church, rather than the denominational structure, as central. The emergence of the regional gospel partnerships in many areas of the country has enabled Anglicans and Free Churches to work together in training and mission. Many of the historic divisions between conservative evangelical Anglicans and the free church are, sadly, rooted in issues of class and culture rather than doctrine and ministry, resulting in misunderstanding and suspicion. Snobbery and inverted snobbery, and feelings of superiority and inferiority, are rife, damaging and inconsistent with the gospel.

Free church evangelicals need to understand that their Anglican brothers have remained in the Church of England out of a genuine conviction that they represent the historic confessional reformed faith of the church, and because they believe that they enjoy great gospel opportunities as a result. Whilst we may not agree with these convictions, we need to make sure that we respect the integrity with which they are held and do not assume that there is a lack of integrity motivated by purely pragmatic considerations. Whereas a previous generation of Anglican evangelicals saw an opportunity to win over the church as a whole, today they seem to be a beleaguered minority as a result of the introduction of women’s ordination, the prospect of women bishops and the issue of homosexuality. There are many “independent” Anglican churches that are being planted outside of official diocesan structures, and many of these are almost identical in practice to an FIEC church. The future of conservative evangelicals within the Church of England seems to me to be very uncertain, and it is vital that we support and encourage our brothers, and ensure that the FIEC would be welcoming home if there were to find it no longer possible, or beneficial for the gospel, to remain.

GD: Since the Cheltenham Bible Festival in 2007 the FIEC has not had a conference for its churches. Are there any plans to resurrect an annual FIEC event?

There has been a huge amount of feedback over the last few years lamenting the loss of the FIEC annual event. There is no prospect of resurrecting an event on the model of the old Caister or Pwhwlli conferences, both because it would be difficult to find a suitable venue during the Easter school holidays, and also because we would not wish to compete with New Word Alive, which is serving the purpose of providing a bible-centred holiday week at that time and did not exist when the FIEC conference was at its height. However we are looking into the possibility of a smaller scale event of some kind for the FIEC constituency, perhaps at the very end of the summer or during the autumn. I have established a feasibility study and we are investigating a number of possible venue options for 2015. Watch this space!

GD: The FIEC churches in our area (Wiltshire/Bath/Somerset) have been organised into small clusters of congregations within the wider group. This has facilitated deeper fellowship within the clusters and has made it simpler for churches to work together in mission. Do you think that clustering might be a way forward for other FIEC areas?

I think that this is absolutely essential if FIEC is to be meaningful for churches at a local level. I would love to see this happening all over the country. However it is not something that we can organise or drive centrally. We can only encourage and envision. Clusters only come together and work well if there are a number of local church leaders who have a vision for FIEC in the area, and who are prepared to give the time and energy to making them work. I am devoting a great deal of time this autumn to 24 or so 90^th Anniversary celebrations around the country. I will be very pleased if one result of this is that local churches start to meet together more frequently for join services to encourage each other. In the past this was common on a Saturday, but with modern life that no longer works well. It requires churches to decide to hold a joint Sunday evening service, or to cancel their mid-week meetings in favour of something collective, if more than a handful of congregation members are to come.

GD: How might we ensure that pastors continue to develop in theological depth and spiritual passion?

This is a vitally important issue and one that requires a multifaceted answer. Nothing can take away from the responsibility of individual Pastors to make their spiritual growth and development a personal priority. They need to make sure that they take time for prayer, preparation, reading and on-going study. They need to exercise self-discipline in this regard and to learn to say “no” to good things in order to make sure that they have time for the essential. Churches have a key role to play in ensuring that they allow their pastors to have time for personal development and maintaining spiritual passion. The pastor cannot always be instantly available to all the needs of the congregation. Churches need to give their pastors time for refreshment, personal retreats, to attend helpful conferences, perhaps to undertake a part-time course of some kind. Churches might perhaps think of giving their pastors financial help to purchase books and attend conferences that will be of help. Then there is the vital role of fellowship and support between pastors, encouraging and spurring one another on. This may be through regular fraternals, preaching groups, or informal meetings. It is good if pastors can find one or two others to pray with regularly on a more personal basis. The FIEC cannot provide and organise this for every pastor, but we can try to ensure that every FIEC pastor has a “link-pastor” who will proactively care for them and encourage them, and our new National Support Team has been brought together by Richard Underwood (our Pastoral Director) to move this forwards. The FIEC Leaders Conference and the new Hub Conference for those training for ministry, also seek to develop a lasting network of relationships between our pastors, bringing them together as a “band of brothers” serving the Lord.

One of the encouragements of the FIEC at the moment is the number of men who are undertaking serious theological study in preparation for ministry. In previous generations there was a tradition of rejecting the need for formal theological training within FIEC, in part because of the lack of solid conservative evangelical seminaries in the UK, but this has changed over the last 20 years. The next generation of pastors, especially for larger and medium sized churches are likely to be better trained and have a deeper theological depth as they commence there ministry than was the case in the past. The danger is that this might result in pride, and failing to keep growing, or of a theological depth that it not accompanied by a spiritual passion for Christ, people and the lost.

GD: Name your top three songs or pieces of music.

I hate these kinds of questions because I have a broad and eclectic taste in music and my top choices will constantly change. My all-time favourite hymn is How firm a foundation (which was sung at our wedding). My current favourite modern hymn is By faith we see the hand of God. In classic music probably Elgar’s Cello Concerto. Popular music impossible to pick a single favourite song but I have sad liking for the 80s! Current favourite album is Leonard Cohen Old Ideas, but am looking forward to listening to Bob Dylan Tempest.

GD: What is the most helpful theological book that you have read in the last twelve months, and why?

The most helpful book I have read is Gilbert & DeYoung, What is the Mission of the Church? because it puts its finger on a key issue confronting evangelicals today, namely the extent to which social action and cultural transformation are the mission and purpose of the church. It seems to me that the social gospel is sneaking back into evangelicalism by the back door and that the seeds of the next liberalism are already being sown amongst the next generation of evangelicals because of a lack of clarity about the task of the church to call people to repentance and faith and to wait for the eschatological kingdom that will come only with the return of Jesus.

GD: What is the biggest problem facing Evangelicalism in the UK, and how might we best respond to it?

There are many big problems facing UK evangelicalism, including doctrinal drift and incipient liberalism, division and a lack of coherence in our response to the secular situation in which we find ourselves, a demographic time bomb facing the churches as congregations age (the next generation won’t be religious simply because they turn 60!), the difficulty of sustaining gospel witness in many rural areas of the country, the social segregation and cultural divide between the middle classes and the benefit dependent. However I suspect that the greatest problem is the lack of confidence in the gospel as the power of God for salvation, the discouragement of seeing relatively little fruit from faithful and prayerful ministry, and the danger of being ashamed of Christ in a culture which rejects and despises him and those who confess him as Lord.       

GD: Well, thanks for dropping by for this conversation, John. Hopefully see you at our local FIEC 90 bash in Chippenham on 22nd November.             

Meet the bloggers interview

See here for my ruminations on blogging in an interview with John Brand.

Blogging in the name of the Lord: Jonathan Hunt

GD: Hello Jonathan Hunt and welcome to Exiled Preacher. Please tell us a little about yourself.

Born 1977, born again 1992, called to preach in 2005. Married since 2002, to Clare, with one step-son, John, who is 14. I have a degree in English Literature from the Open University. For the last three years I have been full-time carer for my wife who has MS, and I have served as Preaching Elder at Cheltenham Evangelical Free Church.

GD: You blog at Pastor’s Pen. How do you view blogging in relation to the pastoral ministry?

A word of explanation, perhaps. I have blogged in various incarnations since 2004. Upon accepting the new Pastorate, I decided that I really could not continue to blog as a private individual. I do view blogging technology as useful, though, and so I will be continuing to 'blog' using a part of our new church website, www.mortonbaptist.org. This will mainly be a means of placing online the pastoral letters, articles and book reviews which I write for our monthly church magazine, the 'Morton Messenger'.

GD: You are about to become Pastor of Morton Baptist Church, Thornbury. Describe your call the work of the ministry at Thornbury.

It was a great suprise. Although Clare and I had the sense that we were open to a move somewhere, we could not see how it would work out as we needed to stay in Cheltenham for at least another 18 months. I had been aware of the church for about three years, having attending various preaching rallies there, and preached on a few Sundays. In May 2011 I attended such a rally meeting, and I was taken aside by the Church Secretary afterwards. 'May we register an interest?' he asked. I came home and discussed it with Clare, prayed, and the next day agreed that they could take it further. I was 'interviewed' by the Secretary and former Pastor, and then preached with a view twice one Sunday at the end of June. I also understand that various references from experienced ministers were taken up. On Friday 1st July, the church members extended an unanimous call to me, which I have (obviously) accepted, and I commence formally on 1st January 2012.

GD: And the Induction Service is when?

Let's get this straight - the Ordination Service AND the Induction Service are BOTH on Saturday 14th January 2012 at 2pm.

 GD: That's clear, then. What are your hopes and fears as you contemplate your first pastorate?

My hopes are many. Primarily that the Lord will be pleased to bless our ministry to the salvation of many in the area, but equally that He will bless and encourage the saints who have been bruised and battered by some considerable troubles and unexpected bereavements. Secondarily I hope as ever that I might grow in grace and be a blessing to others. I continue to be amazed that someone like me could be used in this way. A minor hope is that we might sing some more Psalms! My fears? All about myself. Jesus Christ never fails - but I know that I do! I also fear that if there is blessing, praise will be wrongly attributed to me rather than to Almighty God.

GD: Where did you train for the pastoral ministry and what did you find most helpful about your training?

Mostly in the school of experience. The past few years have seen me do pretty much everything that arises pastorally, apart from a wedding. I did attend the London Reformed Baptist Seminary for four years but I freely confess that whilst I completed full attendance and (I hope) did all the reading, I didn't manage to submit all the assignments. I continue to train myself and I am trying to study some greek now. If there was one thing most helpful about LRBS, it was the series of 'Book overviews' given by various pastors who brought out the chief themes, opportunities for teaching or evangelistic preaching, and schemes for covering the contents, in all the books of the Bible.

GD: Who has had the greatest influence on your theological development?

Peter Masters. This is the obvious truth, because he was my pastor for 24 years. I owe Dr Masters a great debt - and if I could have two attributes of his - his passion for the lost and his desire to make the scriptures accessible to everyone - then I would be very happy. I would just add that in the ten years that I have been away from London, I have continued to develop theologically, and some of my positions would now be a little different from his - although I would still affirm the 1689 confession with very minor variations.

GD: If time travel were possible, which figure from post-biblical church history would you like to meet and what would you say to him/her?

It is corny but I cannot get beyond Mr Spurgeon. I would love to know what his voice sounded like. What would I say? Nothing. I would be listening.

GD: What is the most helpful theological book that you have read in the last twelve months? It is a must read because...

A small one. 'Singing the songs of Jesus' by Michael Lefebvre (Christian Focus). Helpful because it is the best theological presentation of why we should sing the Psalms in worship. A must read because it explains so plainly why the Psalms are Christ's songs which we may sing WITH Him. It avoids the pitfall of arguing for exclusive psalmody (without saying whether that is right or wrong) and this makes the case for the singing of the Psalms in public worship all the stronger.

 GD: Care to share your top three songs or pieces of music?

My tastes are very broad. Thanks to Gary Brady (he posted a link to youtube on his blog, Heavenly Worldliness) I do enjoy the music of Adam Young, better known as 'Owl City'. A professing Christian, his lyrics are clean, the music is fun and there are many spiritual messages in the songs. My favourite track is the multiple-platiunum hit 'Fireflies'. That's only really one answer isn't it? I'll probably say  Handel's Messiah if that isn't cheating, and also 'I was glad' by Parry.

GD: What is the biggest problem facing Evangelicalism today and how should we respond?

A lack of corporate prayer. That is simply my own personal observation. Empty church prayer meetings, long silences, people praying about pet theological issues, and next to no pleading for God's blessing and help, particularly in evangelism. How we should respond is fairly obvious to my mind - make much of corporate and private prayer, encourage and exhort people to pray, and give the lead to the people we serve.

GD: And which blogs do you most enjoy reading and why?

Not very many. I use an RSS reader which allows me to see what is available at a glance. Apart from your good blog, I would say that the top five I visit every day are David Murray's Head Heart Hand, Brian Croft's Practical Shepherding, Jeff Lyle's Transforming Truth, Jeremy Walker's The Wanderer, and for politics and current affairs, Archbishop Cranmer. Very many good blogs have fallen into dis-use in recent times, I note.

GD: Thanks for that, J. Every blessing with your new ministry. 

An Interview with Affinity Director Peter Milsom

GD:  Hello, Peter Milsom and welcome to Exiled Preacher. Please tell us a little about yourself.

PM: I grew up in Cardiff where I attended Park End Presbyterian Church. After working for an insurance company, I trained for the ministry of the Presbyterian Church of Wales and was ordained in 1973. My first pastorate was in Mancot in North Wales. With real sadness, I resigned from this denomination and my ministry in Mancot at the end of 1974 and began a church planting ministry in the Deeside area. I have good friends who continue to serve in the Presbyterian Church. During the early years of this new ministry I worked as the Head of Religious Education at Henry Meoles senior secondary school in Wallasey. In the 1980’s, whilst continuing my ministry in Deeside, I was involved in the planting of a new church in Bala. In 1993 I moved to Malpas Road Evangelical Church in Newport.

Since 1997 I have been the Director of UFM Worldwide, a mission agency which works closely with local churches. UFM missionaries serve in 30 countries across all continents and one of my responsibilities is the pastoral care of the missionaries. I have had the privilege of visiting many countries which has given me insights into the work of God’s Kingdom around the world and the cultural diversity of the Church. The work of taking the Gospel of Jesus Christ to the peoples of the world, with the help of the Holy Spirit, requires the combined efforts of all of the Lord’s people.

I am convinced of the importance of evangelical church unity and its significance for our witness to the Gospel. I believe it is important for these convictions to be expressed in tangible ways. Disunity undermines the credibility of our witness to people who are searching for God and need to know the truth. I have worked out my convictions about evangelical church unity in practical ways. The church in Deeside became a member church of the British Evangelical Council, which is now Affinity, in the late 1970’s. For many years I was involved with the ministries of the Evangelical Movement of Wales and was the Executive Chairman of the EMW in the early 1990’s.  In the mid 1980’s I was involved, with others, in the formation of the Associating Evangelical Churches of Wales which brings together 60 evangelical churches in Wales. In the late 1980’s I served on the organising committee of the Grace Baptist Assembly and chaired two Assemblies. I have also served on the Council of Global Connections and have chaired the Affinity World Focus Team since its inception.

GD:  Give us a potted history of Affinity.

PM: Affinity continues the work of the British Evangelical Council. The Council of the BEC adopted the name Affinity in 2004, when Jonathan Stephen became the first Director. The BEC began in 1952 as a fellowship of evangelical churches which were not part of the World Council of Churches. In the late 1960s and early 1970s the BEC grew as some churches left the major denominations because of the growing influence of liberal theology, especially amongst the leaders of those denominations.  The churches which left the denominations recognized the importance of expressing their commitment to evangelical unity through belonging to the BEC. Affinity is a church-based body. Since 2004 evangelical Christian agencies have also become Affinity Associates. This includes Bible Colleges, publishers, and mission agencies.

GD: What is the purpose of Affinity?

PM: Affinity is an expression of evangelical Christian unity. Everyone who belongs to Affinity is committed to the Bible, as the authority for all we believe and do, and to the church, as the means by which God’s purposes in the world are accomplished. We are responding to the prayer of the Lord Jesus in John 17 “that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me.”  We believe that Jesus prayed for a visible expression of the spiritual unity all Christians have because we are “in Christ.” Unity amongst true Christians makes our witness credible to the world and is essential if the Gospel is to be taken to the whole world.  We are a partnership of churches and Christians who are committed to the Gospel. We welcome fellowship with all who are committed to the Lord, the Bible, the Church and the Gospel.

GD: Affinity seemed to begin with a bang and then (almost) peter out with a whimper. How do you plan to rejuvenate Affinity as a focus for Evangelical unity in the 21st century?

PM: Affinity continues the witness of the British Evangelical Council.  The purpose of the new name and re-launch in 2004 was to challenge evangelical churches and Christians to become more actively involved in evangelical unity. Affinity now includes Christians and churches in the UK and Ireland so the word “British” needed to be changed. Affinity also includes a number of evangelical agencies involved in a range of significant ministries including pastoral and leadership training, publishing and world mission. This partnership between churches and evangelical agencies is important because the 21^st century presents challenges which we need to address together. The need is urgent. I am keen for Affinity to enable all who belong to it, and others who may join us, to work together on a Gospel agenda. We are living in a secular society and are witnessing the decline of Western civilization. We need to stand together in Gospel partnership. A new generation of younger leaders needs encouragement and younger people generally need to be evangelized. It is important for evangelical Christians not to think of Affinity as “them” but “us” and to get involved. I am always glad to hear from people who want to work out what it means to be “in Christ” together with other churches and Christians.

GD: Why should Evangelical Churches and Church groupings affiliate to Affinity rather than the Evangelical Alliance?

PM: We recognize the excellent work done by the Evangelical Alliance, which is a bigger organization than Affinity. There are certain things which are distinctive of Affinity. We are committed to the Bible and to the church. The Affinity Council consists of church leaders appointed by the various church groupings to which they belong. Everyone who belongs to Affinity is committed to upholding and proclaiming the vital truths expressed in our Doctrinal Basis. In recent years some evangelicals have begun to question key doctrines, for example, the authority of the Bible, justification by faith, substitutionary atonement, the uniqueness of the Gospel, and eternal punishment.  We take biblical truth very seriously. The affects of embracing non-biblical, liberal theology can be seen only too clearly in the tragic decline of the major Protestant denominations in Britain today.  We recognize the major issues facing evangelical churches and Christians in the major denominations, especially the Church of England and the Church of Scotland. We want to do all we can to encourage and help our brothers and sisters in those denominations in their stand for the Lord and for the Gospel.

GD: How do you see the role of Affinity with respect to the relationship between Evangelical Nonconformists and our Evangelical Anglican brethren?

PM: In 1992 I was the chairman of the BEC Council when the first Church of England congregation was accepted into membership of the BEC. Then and now we do not require a church to have actually seceded from their denomination in order to join Affinity. We recognize that some churches believe that they should continue to witness actively to the truth within their denominations. This is important for all evangelical churches which are within a denomination, whether nonconformist or Anglican. Affinity embraces a variety of churches. There are differences amongst us on matters such as the form of church government and baptism. We are united on the basis of the fact that we are “Evangelicals”. Our commitment to our fellow evangelicals is more important to us than our commitment to an historic ecclesiastical tradition. We welcome fellowship with all, whether nonconformist or Anglican, who are Gospel people and are actively witnessing to the Gospel within their denomination.

GD: Is separation from the “mixed denominations” still a live issue?

PM: Recent events within some of the main denominations mean that separation is a live issue. This is true, for example, for some in the Church of England and also the Church of Scotland. The agenda of liberal theology is being pursued relentlessly by denominational leaders. They are determined to pursue policies and practices which are a denial of biblical authority and cause real problems for evangelical churches and pastors. We are keen to do everything we can to strengthen the hands of those bearing witness to the truth within the mixed denominations and, should they decide to separate, to encourage them to seek fellowship with other evangelical churches in Affinity.

GD: I notice that Affinity’s theological journal, Foundations is now available for free online. What might readers expect from the journal?

PM: The first online edition of Foundations, our theological journal, was published in May this year. As an online journal it is now available, free of charge, to church leaders and Christians around the world. Foundations is an international journal of evangelical theology. Its aim is to cover contemporary theological issues by articles and reviews, taking in exegesis, biblical theology, church history and apologetics, and to indicate their relevance to pastoral ministry. Its particular focus is the theology of evangelical churches which are committed to biblical truth and evangelical ecumenism.

GD: A number of people were slightly bemused when the British Evangelical Council was relaunched as Affinity. Any plans for another change of name?

PM: It has taken a little time for people to get used to the new name. We have no plans to change it. One of the big challenges we face is to work together as churches and evangelical agencies in an increasingly effective partnership for the Gospel.  Affinity is not about something that other people do for us but what we, as the Lord’s people do together.

GD: If time travel were possible, which figure from church history would you most like to meet, and what would you say to him/her?

PM: I recently enjoyed reading Jonathan Aitken’s biography of John Newtown, “From to Disgrace to Amazing Grace.” I would have liked to know John Newton and to have talked with him about his experience of God’s grace and how that had made him a warm and committed pastor of the Lord’s people. 

GD: What is the most helpful book that you have read in the last twelve months?

PM: I enjoyed reading “Son of Hamas.”  It tells the amazing story of how Mosab Hassan Yousef, the oldest son of Sheikh Hassan Yousef, a founder member of Hamas, became a disciple of Jesus. It encouraged me to see how the Holy Spirit works to bring people to faith in seemingly inaccessible places.  Mosab Yousef’s experience of the love of God for him and his attempt to obey Jesus’ teaching that we should “love our enemies” is a great challenge to us as evangelicals. It is an excellent book and you won’t need to sell your shirt to buy it!

GD: What is the biggest problem facing Evangelicalism today and how should we best respond?

PM: There are many big challenges facing us as Evangelicals today. It is so important that we face these challenges together. We need to resist the increasing fragmentation amongst us. Paul’s challenge in 1 Corinthians, chapter 1 is relevant to us today, “Is Christ divided?” In my early days in the ministry we wanted to encourage each other as evangelicals across the denominations. We were warm-hearted towards each other. Since then, various factors have divided us from our fellow evangelicals. It is very serious matter. It is vitally important for us to “make every effort to keep the unity of the Spirit through the bond of peace.”  We must “accept one another just as Christ accepted us, in order to bring praise to God.” The divisions amongst us undermine the credibility of our witness to the Lord and hinder the task of taking the Gospel to the world.  One of the immense privileges of being a Christian is that, because we belong to the Lord and are “in Christ”, we have a real and eternal fellowship with all our fellow Christians. The great divide in the world is between those who are “in Christ” and those who are not. The great desire and prayer of all Christians is that people around the world will be rescued from the dominion of darkness and be brought into the kingdom of the Son he loves. Affinity is one expression of our unity in Christ and of our passionate desire to express this tangibly so that the peoples of world might believe in him.

GD: Thanks for that, Peter. Good to see you at the Aber Conference last week. 

Peter Milsom will be preaching at Penknap Providence Church's anniversary service on Saturday 3rd September, 4pm. 

Blogging in the name of the Lord: Mostyn Roberts

Mostyn Roberts

GD: Hello Mostyn Roberts and welcome to Exiled Preacher. Please tell us a little about yourself.

MR: Born 1956 of Welsh parents (my father a Presbyterian minister) in Ealing, London. One younger sister. Moved back to Wales when aged three. School at Newtown, mid Wales. Read law at Pembroke College, Cambridge where I came to know the Lord. Practised law in Croydon, Kent and Northamptonshire. Came to Calvinist convictions largely through the influence of the work of Francis Schaeffer, reading the Institutes when I was 25 and friends who gave me Puritan paperbacks and Lloyd Jones books. Trained for the ministry 1988-93. Pastored churches in Stockton on Tees and Welwyn where I have been since late 1998. Married Hilary in 2002 and have two boys.

GD: Your blog is called “Harp from the Willows”. What made you start blogging?

MR: In a conversation about something with Hilary in December 2009 the subject came up and she said ’You ought to start a blog’. Not accustomed to obeying my wife so readily, surprisingly I did just that. Her faith in some of what I have to say is touching, but her assessment of my technical skills is more realistic: she bought me Blogging for Dummies that Christmas.

GD: Why, “Harp from the Willows”, what’s that about?

MR: ‘Welwyn’ is an olde English word for ‘willows’. I am Welsh, whose national instrument is the harp. I live in Welwyn. Hence…

Biblically, of course, to take your harp from the willows is a metaphor for a renewed faith in God, reversing the ‘hanging up our harps’ of Psalm 137:2.

GD: What are the strengths and weaknesses of blogging as a medium for theological reflection?

MR: 1. Strengths: (i) The freedom to say what you want (within reason) whenever you want to, to whoever may be listening / reading. (ii) A channel for ‘offcut’ thoughts that may otherwise not see the light of day. (iii) The sheer scope of the audience. Mine is probably minute compared with yours, Gary Brady’s or those I once heard called uberbloggers. I am very much an unterblogger and probably have as many visitors in a year as you would in a week. But it is still exciting (if puzzling) to think that I have a committed readership in Latvia. And why, one week last autumn, did I get 19 visits in a few days from Chile? Did the miners look in? The value (which I admit I have sometimes doubted) was brought home to me once last summer. I had done a short piece on the obedience of Christ. A Catholic called ‘Nick’ commented, basically disagreeing with my stance and attacking too the whole doctrine of penal substitution. He referred me to a 12 page article on his blog. I wrote twenty points in disagreement. He replied in twenty points. I replied. He hasn’t come back to me. But it made me think hard. That interaction alone (almost) made last year’s blogging worthwhile.

2. Weaknesses: (i) superficiality of thought (though this is not necessary) and (ii) cyberstorms flare up and subside without satisfactory resolution. But is that not true of most academic debate?

GD: Why did you become a pastor?

MR: As a solicitor I felt that law was not to be my life. My heart was in the study of the Bible and theology, in teaching the Bible, investing in people’s spiritual lives and building the church. For seven years I went though a process of weighing this up, in conversation with trusted counsellors. In the end the way seemed clear, and opened up. I have never seriously doubted that it was right even when I have felt utterly despondent.

GD: Where did you train for the pastoral ministry and what did you find most helpful about your training?

MR: At Spurgeon’s College, south London. I was in a Baptist Union church and this was the most evangelical of the Baptist colleges. The most useful things were the study in Greek of the New Testament; the Old Testament course with Martin Selman; and the experience, as one committed to Reformed theology, of being in a theological minority.

GD: What is the best piece of advice that anyone had given you on preaching?

MR: I am not sure if it was ever given to me as specific advice but a conviction that directs me is ‘Trust the Word’. Given that the work of the Holy Spirit is essential to its efficacy, nonetheless an implicit confidence in the power of the Word seems to me to be foundational to preaching. It delivers one from the itch to be ‘original’ and ‘entertaining’ and all manner of other human distractions, without denying the need for careful preparation and presentation.

GD: Do you ever feel like giving up on pastoral ministry, if so what makes you carry on?

MR: I have often felt pastoral ministry to be extremely painful, not least when I was voted out of a large Baptist Union church in the North East. But I have rarely thought for very long, if at all, that I wanted to be out of the ministry. I really could not envisage wanting to do anything else. What has carried me through difficult times more than anything else has been the conviction of God’s sovereignty. I derive enormous strength and joy from knowing the Lamb is on the throne; ‘… the clouds you so much dread are big with mercy…’.

GD: You teach systematic theology at the London Theological Seminary. What is the relationship between systematics and preaching?

MR: First, preaching is the logical conclusion to systematics (ST). B.B. Warfield says: 'The systematic theologian is pre-eminently a preacher of the gospel and the end of his work is obviously not merely the logical arrangement of the truths which come under his hand, but the moving of men, through their power, to love God with all their hearts and their neighbour as themselves...' For this, he needs to 'be having a full, rich, deep religious experience of the great doctrines with which he deals; he needs to be living close to God'. This sums up my conviction.

Second, ST is necessary for preaching. Don Carson describes biblical theology as a ‘bridging’ discipline, ST as a ‘culminating’ discipline. The gospel itself is a system. Look at Paul’s letter to the Romans. ST is rather denigrated today from various directions: (i) Much is said about ‘narrative’ theology and preaching. Narrative is important, and the gospel is rooted in historical facts. The object of saving faith, however, is not historical facts in themselves, but the divine meaning and saving import of those facts (not just ‘Christ died’ but ‘Christ died for our sins’). Otherwise we are telling a story without a moral, a ‘joke’ without a punchline (if I may be allowed an inappropriate metaphor). ST gives the ‘point’ of the narrative. (ii) There is suspicion of metanarrative. Yet any worldview, even the postmodern sceptical one, has some form of metanarrative. ST insists that the Bible is a unity, and reflects the mind and purposes of God for his creation. This may be unfashionable but it is reasonable, and essential to understanding and preaching Scripture. (iii) There is also a false antithesis between ‘doctrine’ and ‘story’ or ‘life’. ST consists of a lot of propositions and propositions are suspect today. Warfield however quotes HCG Moule to good effect: '[All saving truth a believer enjoys is doctrine]; it is made to live in the heart by the Holy Ghost given to him. But it is itself creed, not life. It is revealed information'. That Christ condescends to faith by way of propositions is a wonder of grace, but it is true. Let us seek more of the Holy Spirit to make truth live, not relinquish the importance of propositional truth.

GD: I’m thinking about training for the pastoral-preaching ministry. Why should I choose LTS?

MR: I am delighted to hear of your intention Guy; we look forward to seeing you. [Very funny. Not sure they'd let me in again. GD]. LTS is not the place to come if you want a theology degree (which, let’s face it, is not difficult to come by these days), or want to study theology as an intellectual exercise or even just to make yourself more useful as a Christian worker, though that is a worthy goal. For the man convinced that the Lord is calling to him to some form of ministry of the word, however, LTS offers excellent, vocationally appropriate training. The academic level is high, higher I would say than I received at Spurgeon’s for which I was awarded a degree; but more specifically it is taught by men in, or with long experience of, pastoral ministry. It is theology tailored to practice, which is true theology.

GD: If you had to recommend only one work of systematic theology what would it be?

MR: I would still recommend Berkhof if you want only one. It is comprehensive and is above all else easy to use. He is succinct and you can find what you want quickly, whereas in more modern systematics, even when they have benefits over Berkhof in other ways (which many do), you can wade through pages to find your subject.

GD: Some great systematic theologians never wrote a complete systematic theology (e.g. B. B. Warfield, John Murray). Is there an aching space on your library shelves that you wish could be filled by “Systematic Theology by....”?

MR: I have often thought that Sinclair Ferguson would have benefited us greatly with a systematic theology. After all, he does great stuff for children.

GD: Maybe he'll do a Systematic Theology for kids? What do you make of Kevin Vanhoozer’s proposals on reconfiguring theology in terms of theodramatics?

MR: You have asked me this before and I have made little progress in the opinions I expressed in March! (1) I do not see the need for his ‘reconfiguration’, which seems to proceed on the unverified assumption that doctrine as we traditionally know it is ipso facto abstract and dry and not relevant to people. When I read our great creeds and confessions and the history out of which they came and what they have meant to generations of Christians, often in great afflictions, I cannot swallow that. (2) It all seems terribly complex and no improvement at all in terms of accessibility for people. Am I really helped by seeing God as a script-writer, a theologian as a dramaturge (which I have never heard of in any capacity before anyway) or the Holy Spirit as ‘Director’? Is it not bordering on the irreverent, except as a passing metaphor? (3) Try as one may, to see the redemptive work of God as ‘drama’ would I fear suffer the same fate as such theological words as ‘myth’. Theologians may try to persuade people it does not mean ‘fiction’ but people will think differently.

So – not convinced, not impressed. Some day I may read him!

GD: That might help. I understand that Vanhoozer is currently on a book aimed specifically at pastors along the lines of "Faith speaking understanding: doing church in the theater of the world". Now, if time travel were possible, which figure from post-biblical church history would you most like to meet and what would you say to him/her?

MR: Oliver Cromwell. I would ask him –‘Do you think it possible that you might have been mistaken?’ (I don’t think he was on the big issues, but I would still love to ask him!)

GD: Name your top three songs or pieces of music.

MR: Rachmaninov’s second piano concerto; Gounod’s ‘Judex’ from ‘Mors et Vita’; most things by Paul Simon.

GD: What is the most helpful work of theology that you have read in the last twelve months? It is a must read because...

MR: Though I greatly enjoyed and would heartily recommend the Christian Focus edition of The Marrow of Modern Divinity, I think it is pipped to this post by Hugh Martin’s The Atonement. Elegantly written, this work exalts the atoning work of Christ primarily by putting it firmly in the context of his priesthood, and so demonstrates like no other comparable work the inseparability and mutual dependence of his atoning work and his heavenly intercession. Essential reading for any minister and theologian, heart warming and elevating.

GD: What is the biggest problem facing Evangelicalism today and how should we respond?

MR: “Dear Sir, I am, yours faithfully…”

But if you want a longer answer:

In general? The biggest problem of the people of God is always within themselves, not from outside. Idolatry, immorality and injustice begin within. So I would have to say generally that lack of faith in some form will always be our greatest problem. How is that remedied? Faith comes by hearing. We need more Spirit-accompanied preaching and humbler listening to God’s word.

More specifically: I would like us to have a discussion about this statement of Calvin near the beginning of The Necessity of Reforming the Church: ‘If it be inquired, then, by what things chiefly the Christian religion has a standing existence amongst us, and maintains its truth, it will be found that the following two not only occupy the principal place, but comprehend under them all other parts, and consequently the whole substance of Christianity, viz., a knowledge, first of the mode in which God is truly worshipped; and secondly of the source from which salvation is to be obtained’. I think it would do us good to ponder the importance of our public worship in light of the tendency today to say ‘ as long as our doctrine is OK’ all else is (almost) a matter of indifference.

GD: Which other blogs do you enjoy reading and why?

MR: Yours (no flattery intended) for stimulation; Gary Brady for the range of information, even when (I am sure he will not mind my saying) it’s useless; Paul Helm when I am feeling energetic; Al Mohler for good Reformed journalism; Iain D Campbell for edification; I keep meaning to visit Colin Adams’ blog; Jeremy Walker and Martin Downes can be very helpful.

GD: Well, thanks for dropping by for this chat, Mostyn. See you at the Affinity Theological Studies Conference next week. Reading the papers, looks like it's going to be a good un.

Blogging in the name of the Lord: Gary Benfold

Gary Benfold

GD: Hello, Gary Benfold and welcome to Exiled Preacher. Please tell us a little about yourself.

GB: A Yorkshireman by birth and conviction, I was 'awakened' through hearing Lloyd-Jones preach, and converted as a teenager in a Wesleyan chapel where they loved the Bible enough to move away from Wesleyanism when they saw it didn't fit. I went off to study Business Studies at Bradford University, taught in Rotherham for three years (to give me time to grow up - not sure it worked) and then began to train for pastoral ministry. I'm married to Elaine, and have two adult children and three darling granddaughters.

GD: You have a blog entitled, Who's that Preacher? What made you start blogging?

GB: I was just playing around to see if I could set up a blog - I'm not very computer literate. I didn't take it seriously for quite a while - one evidence of which is that this year I've posted almost as many posts already as in the whole previous five years. But I've continued because it gives me chance to reflect on issues - trivial and otherwise - that catch my attention, and share my thoughts with anyone interested. I've also discovered, just this past month, that the number of 'hits' goes up dramatically if I put a preacher's name in the title!

GD: What are the strengths and weaknesses of blogging as a medium for reflection on theology and ministry?

GB: Its weaknesses are obvious: the ignorant share what they don't know all too easily, and stoke up the fires more than is helpful. And light-hearted banter can be taken too seriously by the Reformed Thought Police and get 'slammed' in a national conference. Its strengths, though, will take longer to emerge: though I'm glad to have found my way to Phil Johnson and Dan Phillips, neither of whom I would ever have read otherwise.

GD: Who has had the most influence on your theological development?

GB: Oh, easy: Lloyd-Jones and Packer. I'll never forget the shock of reading Packer's 'Introduction' to Owen's 'Death of Death in the Death of Christ', and discovering that my free will wasn't free, and God's free grace really was. Both have exerted immense influence on me since, though I differ from each significantly.

GD: I well remember reading that intro in my lunch break when I worked in a steelworks in Newport many years ago. It's what put the 'L' into my TULIP. Describe your call to pastoral ministry.

GB: Hmm. I was converted just a month or so before I went up to university, and Bradford had an excellent CU - the only Reformed one in England at the time, I think - where we had regular visits from Stuart Olyott and Geoff Thomas and others of similar convictions. But the big turning point for me was a CU houseparty, where the preacher was taking us through 2 Timothy. I'd never heard systematic expository preaching before and I was absolutely gripped - I can still weep when I recall sections of it. I remember thinking 'If I could do that, it would be worth spending my life for.' Gradually over the next couple of years the conviction grew within that God was calling me to spend my life trying to exactly that. Ironically, the preacher that influential weekend was Roy Clements, who has since turned away.

GD: Where did you train for the ministry and what was the most helpful aspect of your training?

GB: I trained at the London Theological Seminary, from 1980-82. The most helpful thing was sitting under men who took the Bible and the Spirit seriously and were passionate about Christ. You were there later, I think - what did you find most helpful?

GD: I ask the questions round here, Gary. Now, what is the most helpful piece of advice that anyone has given you on preaching?

GB: Two things vie for first place: Alistair Begg 'Think yourself empty, read yourself full, write yourself clear, pray yourself hot'; he got it, I think, from Leith Samuel who himself got it from someone else. But it's deceptively helpful: the first thing is to write down everything you think the text is saying, during which some sort of structure will probably begin to emerge. The second stage insists on you checking to make sure you haven't missed the point, or something crucial. The third thing is obvious, I think; and the fourth, too easily neglected.

Rivalling this advice for first place is from Olyott: State, illustrate, apply.

GD: What is the relationship between Word and Spirit in preaching?

GB: You want a succinct answer to that? Are you kidding?

GD: No. But moving on, if time travel were possible, which figure from post-biblical church history would you most like to meet, and what would you say to him/her?

GB: That's fun, isn't it? Who wouldn't love to meet Spurgeon, or Whitefield? But I think I'd settle for Lloyd-Jones, and say 'thank you.'

GD: Did you enjoy the recent Evangelical Ministry Assembly?

GB: Oh yes. They're usually uneven, and this one was too. But it was great to hear Vaughan Roberts on Whitefield, saying things a Proc Trust Anglican needed to say; and electrifying (to me) to hear him describe Whitefield's first preaching in London and point to the door through which I'd entered a few minutes earlier and say 'He entered through that door; came down that aisle, and climbed into this pulpit.' Wow - history lives.

GD: I wasn't there, but I've just started listening to the MP3 downloads (see here). Good stuff so far. Should Evangelicals welcome the pope's visit to the UK in September?

GB: I don't think Evangelicals should care one way or another - he's just another leader of another false religion. But Englishmen (sorry, Guy - the British) should care very much. As I understand it, he still claims to be a head of state, and still claims jurisdiction over England. Isn't that right? [Sure is.] And he may be prepared to keep quiet about it for 'the long game' - the Vatican certainly thinks in centuries - but we mustn't think he isn't serious. Unless and until he repudiates all such claims, then he shouldn't be welcomed - should he?

GD: Certainly not. Care to name your top three songs/pieces of music?

GB: Beethoven, Violin Concerto (played by David Oistrakh); Beethoven, Piano Concerto no. 5 ('Emperor') (played by Ashkenazy); Bruch, Violin concerto (played by Janine Jansen).

GD: Is Elvis' version of "Bridge Over Troubled Waters" really better than the Simon & Garfunkel original?

GB: Oh yes; but Peter Masters' version far outstrips them both.

GD: I'll take your word for it. You are sometimes confused with fellow pastor-blogger Gary Brady. For those who can't tell the difference, which one are you?

GB: The one without a famous father-in-law. The slim one. The old one. The one who doesn't speak Welsh. (Spot the odd one out).

GD: You're both a bit odd. Right, what is the most helpful theological book you have read in the last twelve months? It is a must read because...

GB: I've re-read parts of Knowing God by J. I. Packer - it's theology that thrills the heart. If I may be frank - I wouldn't read some of the stuff you review. I'm not criticising anyone else for reading it, but I can't see how it would actually help me reach the lost or build up the saints... in fact, I think it would get in the way. Please feel free to shoot me down.

GD: I've always believed that pastors should read widely and deeply. I don't think that books have to have a direct relevance for pastoral ministry in order to be worth reading. That's my excuse anyway. Now, what is the biggest problem facing evangelicalism today and how should we respond?

GB: The thing that troubles me most is the defeatist and backward-looking attitudes of some of the Reformed movement in the UK - you may have heard me on this before. I don't say it's the biggest problem facing evangelicalism, but it certainly doesn't help. I could go on about this. I certainly don't want to be unkind to anyone. But I wish there was a conference in the UK like 'Together for the Gospel' or 'Resolved'. I've thought about starting one myself - a conference for happy Calvinists! But I might be the only one there...

GD: Lastly, which blogs do you especially enjoy reading and why?

GB: Pyromaniacs; Dan Phillips' Biblical Christianity - both of them for their combination of insight and wit and - sometimes - outrageous comments. Yours, of course - mostly to spot the spelling errors. (Just kidding). Melanie Phillips, for a different - and I think often more accurate - perspective on current news.

GD: Well, thanks for dropping by for this chat, Gary. I am to typing what Les Dawson was to playing the piano. Or as Eric Morecambe once said, "All the right notes, but not necessarily in the right order." I shall try and keep the typos coming just to entertain the pedants. See ya!